The PUSH Project Podcast

Live Through Love || The PUSH Project Podcast EP. 011 || RUBEN ROJAS

• David Hernandez Loves You • Season 2 • Episode 11

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Ruben Rojas shares how love transformed his journey from pre-med studies to real estate to discovering himself as an artist who uses murals to spread the message of love throughout cities worldwide.

• Taking the scenic route to find your purpose, allowing life to unfold naturally
• Trading time for money versus being in service to something greater
• Choosing love as the harder but more rewarding path
• Integrity in showing up consistently whether behind closed doors or in public
• Focusing on self-love as the foundation for loving others authentically
• Finding purpose in planting seeds of love through public art
• Transitioning to fatherhood and discovering an expanded capacity for love
• Using art to remind ourselves and others of our inherent value
• Breaking out of limited thinking and creating new possibilities

"The idea of love seemed appropriate everywhere. I couldn't find a place where love didn't fit." Choose love today.


Speaker 1:

Love is hard. It's an active choice. I am choosing to love and I'm not talking about sacrifice and martyrhood, like we don't sacrifice anything. Choosing to love yourself is selfless. When you love yourself, you can fully love and embrace everybody else and give it out. What's up? Push Project audience? This is Ruben Rojas talking with David Hernandez. Today we talk about love, my journey taking the scenic route. It's okay and he got me at the end, so make sure you stay tuned in.

Speaker 2:

Ruben Rojas. Thank you so much, man, for being a part of the podcast. It's an honor. I don't want to give too much information about you. I'd like you to kind of tell your story and let people know who you are. But I'll start with. You know, you're an artist, you're a muralist, you're an all-around creative, an author, you're a poet, you're a host of your own podcast. Live through love and one thing. And doing my research getting ready for this interview. You said I took the scenic route to get here. Tell me, tell the listeners, who is Ruben Rojas.

Speaker 1:

Well, we're on the Push and Pee podcast, right. So we got to put that pressure on it. So life is now and a lot of us forget that. Right, we got to live with urgency. And that doesn't negate the scenic route that I take and what I mean. Us forget that, right, we got to live with urgency. And that doesn't negate the scenic route that I take and what I mean by that is I've been an artist my whole life.

Speaker 1:

I've been doodling since I was a kid. I've been oil painting. I used to paint completely different than what you see now graffiti and tagging and all that not illegally but like book covers and piecebooks and things like that. And I'm a three-sport athlete. I played football, soccer and track, so that kept me busy from doing the illegal graffiti and all that. But it was always a part of me, it was always there.

Speaker 1:

But it was never encouraged as a way of life, and I don't mean that in a negative. It wasn't discouraged because my mom put us in all kinds of hobbies and electronic classes and wood whittling and oil painting and watercolors and charcoals and all the things. It was just more so that, hey, go be a doctor, go be an attorney, go get into finance, like there's that that path of of what's normal, quote unquote. So the scenic route took me through all that Got all my degrees, got all my accolades, got all my grades, did all my sports and kept pushing to that point until the point of almost getting into and starting pre-med right. So I've got my kinesiology major and I wanted to do orthopedic surgery, like that's the thought. I'm like, dude, I'm a jock, this is perfect, let's go fix other athletes, let's just do this.

Speaker 1:

You know, and I started doing some touring and that I'm like I don't know about this. Is this really what I want to do? I mean, it's easy for me. Do I love it? Love, love it. I have no idea. And, dude, at 18, 19, 20, you don't know, you don't know shit. You, I have no idea who I'm gonna be. I still don't know, you know. I just know that you know I'm doing what I love now. But that led me to real estate. A buddy's like hey, come check out loans, give it a shot. Made 18 grand my first month in real estate.

Speaker 2:

A lot of potential to make good money.

Speaker 1:

20 nothing, yeah, and I'm like half a million in debt, bold, fat, 35, maybe getting out to the world to start practicing, right? Because all the residency and then all the extra stuff, just all the things you need to do to get that point not negating the career, it's great, but it's more like that wasn't the path for me. So then I just made a lot of money in my early 20s, a lot of money, and then it was all about success, ego and bravado and and instead of being whole myself, I'm like, dude, look at my diamond watch, look at my 26 inch rims, look at my boat, look at my houses, look at all these things. Right, that's how I measured success and right in america, that's how we measure success. It's just, it happens. And again, nothing wrong with that, but I wasn't fulfilled and I wasn't whole.

Speaker 1:

And then come up 2008, I go bankrupt, right, lose it, allose it all, sell it all off. Like, what am I going to do with my life? Oh, my God, I went from making way too much money to making absolutely no money, yeah, and then next year, like, what am I going to do 2008 to 2009,? Get into financial advising, become an insurance salesman, retirement specialist, investment specialist, all those things. Five years into that I'm like, oh man, I'm doing the thing again where my reward is money, except for after you lose it all. You realize there's more to life than just amassing money. So I don't want to trade time for money.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, even with that second, that transition into the money management, there was an element there of actually helping people, right. So there was something was entering in that you didn't have necessarily. Well, sure, you were helping people find their homes, but now then you were, maybe there was still this string of helping people with their financial literacy, their investments right Setting up future. So there was still something there where your heart to help had an outlet of sorts right. Sorry, I jumped in Continue.

Speaker 1:

No, no, great observation. Great observation, david, because the common denominator in everything I ever did when I was a personal trainer, when I was going to be a surgeon, when I was doing real estate, when I was doing finance have always been people. It's always been in service to people and, ultimately, our greatest goal should be to be in service to humanity and your return is tenfold. But again, trading time for money, where the money is the reward besides being in service. You were measured by income, you were measured by all that, and I'm five years into this thing. I'm like I'm depressed and I hate it and why I like I'm fit, I got no kids, I got no wife, I got no baggage. You know, yeah, I was bankrupt, but I rebuilt all that, so it's like exactly like I'm born in, la, like I have no reason to feel depressed, I have no reason to feel broken, unworthy, hollow, not enough.

Speaker 1:

These are the conversations I'm having in my head, so I start going to do the work on this and yeah that led me down the path to painting my first public mural and I started painting things that I needed to see in the world as a reminder. So when I say I took the scenic route, I've done all the schooling, I've had multiple careers by the time I finally did this, but the common denominator has always been helping people, being in service, and I've always been self-employed. I've always been entrepreneurial, so those are the two things. So I had to finally bet on myself after a couple years of what does this art thing look like, yeah, and and like how am I going to make money on this? How, how, what is going to happen here? And I finally said you know what? Fuck it. I'm out and I went full blown in 2018 down this path of art and like here we are. You've seen what it turned it into. Like a scribble turned into this it. It's just mind-blowing, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that, the last part. You just said, too, how a scribble just turned into this thing. That's changing lives now. You had just said that on an interview you did with one of the local news stations recently. I mean, if nobody's familiar, this is one of his pieces of work, his merchandise. The mural behind him right now is his work. If you're driving anywhere in LA, you've probably seen several of his murals. I think.

Speaker 2:

What's fascinating too, you're self-described as a lover, an artist, a husband now, and a father A huge honor. Right, I'm a father. We just had our second daughter four months ago and I'm hooked. You know what I mean Like change man forever. Matter of fact, I watched the episode of you and your wife telling your story of how you met and how that led to deciding yeah, let's get married, let's start a family. Beautiful. My wife and I sat and watched that actually over a year ago and, um, you know, I began to see the heart of this man, this part of reuben rojas, right, but for somebody who's recognized all over the world.

Speaker 2:

Your murals are all over the world. You have something in Paris, I think I learned that. You said you've done something with BMW. You painted murals on their cars for an event Anywhere in San Diego. And this was the thing is.

Speaker 2:

I grew up in City Heights, born and raised, and just looking at your website I saw you have a mural in the same city that I grew up, in, city Heights and I was thinking what a small world. I got to go find it to check it out. But the connections are there. I have always been brown skin young man that was never afraid to express affection, express myself, communicate, express love. My dad, a huge teddy bear, right. But we had our own problems, different kind of stuff, and it created challenges for us.

Speaker 2:

Statistically I'm sure you've heard all the talks before. Statistically, we're not supposed to be doing this and living walking in purpose. For many reasons we're just not. Statistically, latin men are not supposed to be expressive and saying I love you to another man, right, showing their emotional side being vulnerable. We're not supposed to. Men of color, right. We're just, societally, we're not encouraged to. Yet here we are at least two of us now, mm-hmm, we gravitate towards at least two of us now. We gravitate towards and correct me if I'm wrong about you but we gravitate towards other people that are like this, that are willing to sit down and have substantive conversation.

Speaker 2:

I can't do superficial. I can't sit down and say you know just the superficial stuff of the day. You know just the superficial stuff of the day, but knowing this about you, knowing how you were recognized worldwide for your work now of living through love, there was a time where you were depressed, you felt like you didn't have any direction and somehow you pushed through all of that to find this. And that's really where I want to sit with you know, number one, this young boy from the Valley. Right, you grew up in the Valley. Young man growing up in the Valley. What type of kid today could identify with young Reuben? What kind of kid was young Reuben?

Speaker 1:

what kind of kid was I? I mean, I was an athlete and you know I was a good kid and I'm an old, older sibling, right, my brother. I have a younger brother, so I was the role model to him and as the first born of immigrant parents, it's there was a lot of pressure put on me. Like you, you've got to be perfect, you've got to be the example for your brother. You can't mess up, you can't do these things. So probably people in that capacity can relate to that being perfect, being the example, can't mess up. And those are things that then lead to like I cannot fail, I'm not allowed to fail, I'm not allowed to mess up. And that led to, like you know, the fear of being judged. But what kind of kid am I? I mean, I think it's. It's the athletic kid, it's, it's every kid that's out there, it's any brown boy out there.

Speaker 1:

I don't think we need to unpack it really more deeply than that other than you know, when we're brown, we're in the middle, like we are in the middle, there's white, there's black, we're in the middle and that gets lost. There's black, we're in the middle and that gets lost a lot. And I've been doing a lot of inventory about this and like what is being brown, what is being brown enough? And then in LA we only think Latino, right, but there's Arabs, there's Pakistanis, there's Indians, there's Moroccan, there's pakistanis, there's indians, there's morocco. There's so many people in the world that are brown, even of different asian descents, that are brown. And what does it mean to be brown enough? Yeah, exactly, filipinos. My brother's wife's filipino, so my nephews have filipino and colombian.

Speaker 1:

So, like what is being brown and in the middle, and I think a lot of that is, you said it earlier, we're not supposed to show emotion and be invulnerable and be this. It's not that we're not supposed to, we don't think we can, and it's this culture of machismo that's exactly right. Or, in the space we operate is like shut up, go work, collect your check and that's it, that's your life. Go home, feed the family, rinse and repeat, don't make a scene, don't be loud, don't stand out and you see it, some of the hardest workers in the room are brown people and they're quiet. So what is it? Who is it? Any kid needs to look up to us. It doesn't have to be the brown kid or the black kid or the white kid, I think, ultimately, I want people to know that when you lean into love, when you choose love, there's an endless amount of possibility because that is eternal energy, that is eternal momentum. But you have to choose and to be active. So you know, the world is different now.

Speaker 1:

Our kids, like they, grew up on this. I had cassettes, you know. I had CDs and VHSs. It was very short-lived for us but still we had that.

Speaker 1:

Internet began during our time. Dude, my kid's on his iPad he's not even two yet Do-do-do-do-do-do and we limit his interaction with it. But they know intuitively it's designed, you know, for human use and consumption. But they're going to have a whole different world. And technology now, right, I just saw this thing the other day where you know, from a to b, technology was basically almost a flat line, right, like the rock fire, the wheel, the wheelbarrow, the horse and carriage, a car, a plate, like it was kind of here and now. Now technology is like it's a rocket ship, it's almost vertical. That's how quick things are happening. Iphone's obsolete the minute it drops. Everything we have now, the minute we have access to it's already obsolete. Look at artificial intelligence. Now, right, what do we? When I was a kid. We watched terminator 2 and you're like oh sk, skynet's going to get us like dude is chat GPT. The future is like all these.

Speaker 2:

AI things.

Speaker 1:

Exactly so. I think, though, at the root of all of this, if we get closer to our humanity, we're going to all be better for it. So I think technology can bring us closer. I'm not thinking that the Terminators are going to come. Could come, right. Science fiction comes from someone's mind, and a lot of that becomes reality. Right, minority report. And now we're touching screens, and you don't even need screens and holograms. You see all these things coming to life, but I think it can be for the better.

Speaker 2:

Look what we're able to do now because of technology, and really it's what we're choosing to do with love. It's what we're choosing now to do. We could have been doing anything. Right now, we're choosing to sit together, talk about love, talk podcast mine it's whoever listens to it. Whenever they find it, in whatever point of their life, the hope is that the seed is planted, something grows inside of them and then they spread it out.

Speaker 2:

And so what seeds are we planting together, you and I? The same thing it's love, right? It's that I want you to know how loved you are. I want you to know your potential and your value and to never question it. So, like farmers here, we are just planting seed. I get the sense that you trust the seed that you're planting. You know that you're planting good seed because you walk with the confidence in, in. You just carry yourself with this confidence. I know that what I'm giving out is good seed, just like we. If we plant an orange, we expect oranges to grow. We don't expect strawberries and grapes, right? So we're planting seeds of hope and love and worth, and we're expecting that kind of fruit to manifest in whoever gravitates towards it. You know what I mean. Yep, you have any thoughts on that?

Speaker 1:

you know, at the end of the day, with the painting, with the art, with everything, I can walk you up to the door, I can open the door, I'm opening the door, I'm actually opening the door, but you still need to walk through it. Right, they say you can lead a horse to water, but ultimately, all we can do is control our word, control our actions, because there's so little we can control in life and continually the consistence of showing up the same way, day in, day out, 24, 7, when no one's looking, or when you're on the stage in front of the world and that right there is what's planting the seeds, and then the world has to, you know, reap the benefits and sow it once it's harvested I've heard you speak of uh in in previous discussions.

Speaker 2:

You know paving an unfamiliar path. Can you talk to me a little bit about your ideas, your understanding of paving this unfamiliar path, kind of pushing through things to discovering your own purpose? I know we touched on it just a little bit, but today, as you stand, you know the grown man, the husband and the father. You've reflected back on, I'm sure, the work. And then today talk to me about that.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think I would start with like we're born as babies that are helpless, right. Like we literally come out and we can die. We are so helpless and we're figuring all that out and then, as a parent, you're figuring it out too. Like most of what we're doing is unfamiliar. We don't come with instructions. Life doesn't have an instruction manual.

Speaker 1:

You know, people have paved the way, but we got to realize that 2,000 years ago that was a completely different way than 200 years ago, than 100 years ago, than two years ago, pre-pandemic to now, totally different world already, and there's a lot of fear in the world. So I think it's really realizing that you have the opportunity to dive into anything and figure it out. So what I would say for paving that unfamiliar way is like I'm so used to jumping off cliffs without parachutes and then building them on the way down. Yeah, not everyone's wired that way. We are all wired different. I am wired that way. I have gone running into like I start a clothing line. How do I do this? Can you put my art on a hoodie? Cool, send me a tech pack. I'm like what the hell is a tech pack?

Speaker 2:

What is that? Can you just do this Like?

Speaker 1:

here's the photo. Make this. Well, what kind of hoodie do you want? What's the weight? What's the garment size? What kind of? What color do you want? Like, I'm like white on black. I'm like what do you want? A 10-ounce hoodie, a 12-ounce hoodie? An 8.5-ounce hoodie? Do you want a universal?

Speaker 2:

I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but it didn't stop me. I'm like yo here, put it on that hoodie, put it on that T-shirt, let's go, I just got to get it out. And the fact that on your phone you can Google everything, yeah, all you have to do is ask the question. So it's like, hey, how do I make a tech pack? Oh cool. Template for a tech pack oh cool, I have to make the measurements of the art, put the art file. Okay, so, like, everything is available to us, yeah, just realizing, like all the choices are there, we were made with free will and to choose. And the issue, I think, is a lot of people don't make the choice and guess what the choice is being made, whether you make it for yourself or not some people are stuck right tunnel vision, and not that they're so focused on one thing.

Speaker 2:

It's that they might not even believe that anything outside of that tunnel is possible, and I think that oftentimes it's very critical to break the mold. Somebody's got to do it. Somebody has to break the mold in order to convince others that another way is possible, wouldn't you agree?

Speaker 1:

I mean you can look at Nike's inception. Here's a good example Nike and the running shoe and getting pre Fontaine to do what he did with the mile. No one believed that anyone could run a sub four minute mile. Boom, one guy does it. You know how many people have done that, since you know only one person has to show us what is possible, it has to gets to believe in that dream and then guess what everyone could believe also yeah, I mean speaking of runners too.

Speaker 2:

You have kip chogey, who the first man to ever finish the marathon under two hours and the whole time time you're thinking it's crazy, it's absolutely insane.

Speaker 2:

But he had to have a belief that that was possible and if nobody else believed it, he didn't care. He was like, well, I'm still, I believe I can get it. And then he did it. And now it's like the ripple effect, wouldn't you say? So everybody's like it's possible. Well, dang, I mean, I guess I need to get on this too, would you say? Getting back to even your gift, your creative gift, would you say that there was a time in your life where you ran from your gift at all?

Speaker 1:

I was running until I decided to own it. So yeah, I ran for like 30 years 30 plus years.

Speaker 1:

But I didn't know that was the thing I was supposed to do, yeah, until I fell went up. Fell went up, found myself in a lull, figured it out, you know, and it happened, but I chose to. In that moment, you know, my buddy said hey, come grab a coffee. I'm doing this work. And I was open and willing. You know what? What do I got to lose. I'm. I'm here. Now I gotta do something. Yes, I'm gonna go join you and do that. That led to this. Like, the opportunities are always there but we're not always ready to listen. What if I wasn't ready to listen at that time? I might still be in finance, who knows?

Speaker 2:

like yeah I mean I I just I believe. I believe that this would have been, this path would have found you still, ultimately, because there's something burning inside you that you know. It had to come out like that. There was a, it was a gift planted in you, a treasure that was there that had to be discovered. You Regarding choice you had mentioned choice and I was actually in preparation for this. I kept asking myself why love? Why did you choose love? And the obvious answer is why not? But I want to hear from you. Of all of the things going on in the world. We can get disillusioned, we can get discouraged. Why are you so adamant about spreading love?

Speaker 1:

There's so many ways to answer this, and today I'm going to answer it in this way. And the thought is, because it's not the hard way and it's not the obvious way, love isn't easy.

Speaker 1:

No, it is hard, I'm saying it's not the hard way and it's not the obvious way. You know, love isn't easy. No, it is hard. I'm saying it's not easy. Fear is easy, victimhood is easy, flipping people off is easy, being angry is easy. All those things are very easy because it's low risk. Love is very difficult and I also believe that love is very misappropriated in our culture.

Speaker 1:

Romantic comedies are like oh, prince charming's gonna sweep me off my feet. We're gonna be married and have this house and all the kids and live happily ever after. They never show the rest of the story. Don't get me wrong. I love a good rom-com, like but they show you the warm and fuzzies in the honeymoon phase and they don't show the rest. Like how do you get married for five, six, seven, 20? Exactly, it's not rosy all the time.

Speaker 1:

That's why I'm saying love is hard, but it's also realizing when I was like love isn't this warm, fuzzy blanket, like it's an active choice. I am choosing to love and I'm not talking about sacrifice and martyrhood. Like it's an active choice. I am choosing to love and I'm not talking about sacrifice and martyrhood. Like we don't sacrifice anything. Choosing to love yourself is selfless, right and then when you love yourself, you can fully love and embrace everybody else and give it out without strings and and you know baggage or alternative agendas or things like that. Because sometimes if we don't love ourselves and we're empty and you're using money to find love, hey, here, I love you, take all my money here, go, yeah, yeah, yeah, go do something, because then that makes us feel good for whatever we're lacking inside, that we're not feeling whole with Like ooh, I got my 26-inch rims.

Speaker 1:

Everyone's like dudeen. That escalates, sick, blacked out. 26 is no one's got 26 as you're like a rapper feeds the ego like oh, oh, yeah, tell me how amazing I am. That doesn't mean I was good inside. Yet right now, if I get, I don't need those rims. Would I oppose having the rims? No, because I'm a huge car fanatic and I like, like nice things and there's things I like, but it's the reasons why I have them now versus the reasons that I had them before. So why love? Because it's not easy and anything worth doing is not easy. You know how do you become a champion? Putting in the work and practicing and and believing. You don't just become a champion. And we operate out of love and we operate out of fear.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's a competitive side there, and the world is throwing fear at us all the time. Yeah, living through love and not fear it is a choice, and we decide which side we want to be on. I often think about, for me, everything that I've been through as a kid, everything that I've lived through, survived through. There was just so many different paths that I could have gone down. My father was a drug addict and an alcoholic, and it was rough. So by 18, I was ready to get out the house. I went off to college. That was my escape, right. There was something about going through the hard times that convinced me that I could understand and I could connect with other young people, other families that were going through that kind of stuff, and so since then, I chose to dedicate my life to helping those folks because I could identify with that struggle.

Speaker 2:

Is there any part of you that this is? You know there's, yes, there's altruism. We all agree that doing it, you know, doing something kind and through love for the sake of it's the right thing to do, is nice, but there's also something that we get in return. Isn't it? Isn't there If there's a selfish component to doing good for others, and so I think that choosing love feels great Also, it just feels amazing to do.

Speaker 2:

that 't always doesn't talk to me about that.

Speaker 1:

I mean choosing to have an uncomfortable conversation. You have to choose love in that moment. And they're like yo, brother david, this isn't working for us, like I'm going on another path. You're over here. I don't see us vibing together Like we might have to really take inventory of our friendship here and see where we need to go forward, because right now it's not serving me and I believe I'm not serving you. That's an example of a conversation that's uncomfortable. That's choosing love. That's why it's not easy.

Speaker 1:

And then being in service being in service is the greatest reward and people don't realize it. But you've got to be cognizant with are you really being in service or you're just using an agenda to get something back, in the sense of tit for tat? Hey, I'm doing this, but I know I'm going to get something in return. When you're in service, you get that return no matter what, because they're reciprocity and giving and receiving. So there's a big difference. And hey, am I showing up at this thanksgiving homeless shelter to feed a bunch of people to and this is a shallow example but and then posted on my instagrams and doing all of that, right, serve one bowl and bounce, or did you go? Do it had a grand old time, didn't post anything. I'm not saying you can't share it, but I'm going on both extremes Didn't post it, went back to Thanksgiving, did them with your fam and now you're wholly fulfilled because all you did. You're like I'm going to show up, I'm going to serve a couple people because I want to do it, and that return is zero agenda, it just comes back. So it's still a fine line with everything we're doing Volunteer to volunteer, but don't volunteer for the show.

Speaker 1:

I'll use religion as an example the Old Testament to the New Testament. There was the tabernacle and the curtain, the whole show, and then God's like got rid of that. You don't have to sit on stage and have everyone watch you pray for people to know and want oh, this guy prays, like you can talk to god. I could right now just take a moment and talk to god. You don't even know I don't need to sit here and do this. So like there's certain things like if you're doing it for the show or are you doing it to be genuine, you know like yeah I show up the same way, day in, day, day out.

Speaker 1:

I couldn't paint what I did and do and sell what I do and talk about what I do If behind closed doors I'm not actually doing all these things. Right, like yeah, but then I'm wired that way. That's integrity and having integrity, that's a whole nother fuel to the system. Like, are you integrous or is integrity of your word and keeping your word and actually showing up? You know, imagine being a motivational speaker and you're on stage, but behind closed doors you're like a wife beater or the total opposite, verbally abusive to your family and tearing them all down like that. That's the thing it's. I'm not saying this out of judgment. I'm using random examples that are kind of extreme to hopefully land the point. It's like we're doing this for a reason. Yes, we're doing it to be in service. Yes, we're doing it to be better humans, and when you are just a good human, you feel good and you feel better. But it doesn't mean it's easy choosing this or comfortable right.

Speaker 1:

Going to the gym is not always the funnest thing to do, even if you love. Fitness is a huge part of my life, but there's days I don't want to go. But I still go because I'm committed to myself and and and long game. But when I leave I always feel better. I don't regret it.

Speaker 1:

So when you make these hard choices and choose love and move forward, maybe at first it's not easy. You don't feel good, you're petrified, like. But when it's done you're like oh damn, okay, I'm a little lighter, like, okay, this, this works. But it also just means we're practicing. It's a mental muscle. You're just flexing that muscle more and more and getting more in practice. It doesn't mean I don't go have bad days. It doesn't mean there's a Wednesday that I don't want to get out of bed. I just have the tools now to lean into it and snap out quicker. We're still human, we're still fallible and we're going to have human moments, whatever they are, and just realize, oh, you know what? I didn't choose love in that moment. That's cool, got the best of me. I forgive you, ruben, move on, choose it next time.

Speaker 2:

I forgive you, ruben. Right that loving, even on ourself, right, the self-love is at the core of your message. Right, we go easy on ourselves sometimes. How many people, how many times, have you come across? I'm a therapist as well, and so so many times people are beating themselves up into the ground, just stomping on themselves till it's dust and they are broken. And it's a good reminder sometimes, um, as we're driving through someone la, as we're driving through somewhere in LA, as we're driving through Venice, and we see a mural that says you're loved or you belong here, for example, even those little reminders, those subtle reminders, are all it takes to just turn that corner for us. You know what I mean and who knew I mean, did you know early on that A random drive-by would inspire somebody to turn their life around to avoid suicide? Have you ever had any feedback like that, where people are like listen, I saw this and it changed me. It changed something for me.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I've had a lot of amazing stories emailed to me and that's the stuff that fuels me. You know I've talked about these stories before, but it's not about posting it. Look what this did. You know I've had people talk about their rape and say I am love and I am not a victim to being raped and it doesn't define me or alcoholics or people suffering with cancer. But but back to one of the whys we are all mirrors of each other and when we realize that we're reflections of each other, and you start showing up a certain way, then someone else can see how you're showing up and then they'll start showing up that way.

Speaker 1:

So the first mural I ever painted to every mural I paint now, these are all messages of me speaking to myself to remind myself, ruben, you belong here. To someone else, that means, oh, this is why they belong here, ruben, believe, believe in my mission. Someone else is like believe in what I'm doing. It's all for everybody else, but it's also all for me. And I just happened to put it in a public space and my intention, for the message is so authentic and genuine. It does come across that way and it does make that impact, but they're reminders for me to continue to choose love. I need to see the messages in the world, so I put them out there in the world. And then again, if we're mirrors of each other, someone else needed that, without us realizing. So did I paint?

Speaker 2:

it with that intention. The first mirror was for me. I'm sorry to cut you off. Go ahead. The first mural was for me.

Speaker 1:

I'm like what can I paint here? What can I paint here? I'm like who will you be in all these ways of being, because I was laying in bed like Ruben who the fuck are you? What are you doing with your life? Come on, this can't be. And I put responsible leader, humble joy, love, gratitude. And, like you know, today I'm going to be a responsible leader and I'm going to take responsibility for my life and I'm going to lead it with gratitude for where I'm at right now. And I just needed to see that because the billboard tells me oh, you know what I'm feeling depressed go buy a new ford raptor. If I ever bought a ford, that's my favorite ford truck I'm more of a chevy guy.

Speaker 2:

Good, so I'm not pooing on them.

Speaker 1:

I'm not pooing on them, but it's like I feel bad. Just go buy something, or or or. You're like dude, I'm just fat and out of shape. Freeze the fat for 1999, you know, or whatever it is, instead of like going to the gym. So to me it's like who will you be, take responsibility? So, if I'm all right, let me take responsibility, go lead my life to the gym, or take responsibility and know that I'm worthy and I belong here and I'm loved, you know. So it's like those were the messages. This is why I did it. It happened to create this ripple effect for everybody else.

Speaker 1:

I know it's inspirational, I know it's motivational now, but like I do not call myself a motivational speaker or inspirational speaker, I'm just. I'm an artist. I use art as my medium to encourage people to view the world through the lens of love, and from there all this has stemmed off. But at the root, I'm an artist and I'm a human that just keeps showing up, and consistency is the key. You can't hide consistency. You can't fake that. I can't fake showing up every day.

Speaker 2:

You can't? No, not at all. And it really does help to hear even the person who we all believe is just constantly on and doing great and never has a bad day. It helps to hear even that that person has moments, human moments, where we say I don't feel like getting up and getting to the gym today, I don't feel like having, you know, folks over, I don't feel like going out and hanging out and just doing whatever. I don't feel like being on, I just want to kind of just be in a chill moment for a second and recoup.

Speaker 2:

We remind ourselves sometimes of a greater purpose that we're a part of. So sometimes we have to say all right, you know, dave, ruben, get up, push, go, do the thing. But then other moments were like all right, this is, you know, this is right on, like I'm ready to do this all as you're working on any piece. Has there ever been a moment where, as you're completing a piece of work, that you yourself get emotional because of just taking it all in? Ruben, you know what I mean. Like damn, look like, like, look what I'm doing for a living and the message that's coming out are you ministering to yourself as you're creating this piece that you know is going to bless so many others usually the most of the emotional stuff comes from the impact of someone, but this NFL season that just ended.

Speaker 1:

You know the whole. They kicked off on me this whole choose love movement and you know, when I was in SoFi stadium kicking off the season, in my seats they're playing me on the TV, filming me painting in my studio, filming people in front of my murals, this powerful message by sterling k brown talking like this whole thing, and I'm just like wow, yeah, I was like totally emotional. I'm like wow, yeah, this is crazy. This is crazy, like you know, those that know me knew it was me. And then there's hundreds of millions of people that tuned into this thing and didn't know me. It's not like my name was plastered there, but it didn't matter. I didn't even think about any of that. I just thought about like, as a football player, I played college football and like I love that game and be able to put on that stage. That just was like yeah, yeah, that just was like yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But at the same time.

Speaker 1:

I joke and I'm like I made it to the league. You know a lot of us that played ball. We'd always joke like who's going to the league? Like I knew I wasn't going to the league but it didn't mean I wouldn't have tried or thought if there was an opportunity. But hey, I made it to the league.

Speaker 2:

You did what position Cur? I've tried or thought if there was an opportunity.

Speaker 1:

But hey, I made it to the league. You did what position, curious. What did you play? I was outside linebacker and running back, wow. Okay, I did a little running back in high school, but outside defense is what I mostly.

Speaker 2:

You enjoyed putting some pain on some folks then.

Speaker 1:

That's where they put me, so I wrung the pain.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, all right, they put me so I've rung the pain. Yeah, all right. So you mentioned sofi stadium. Are you rams or chargers? Fan rams, baby, yeah, I'm born and raised san diego, so, reluctantly, I still follow the chargers, but hey you have a good team right now, but, uh, my number one team, the number one team, are the e. Really, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

You were at the Super Bowl this year, correct, and the year before I was hoping for two championships from both teams.

Speaker 2:

It was a great game. It was sad.

Speaker 1:

You know, like growing up here we didn't have a team Like they left and I wasn't going to be a Raider fan and you know I kind of followed the niners but one day I'm just like eagles cunningham mcnab ready why?

Speaker 1:

like oh yeah, oh yeah it's just and it's so against the grain, like it's the total opposite side. I've never been to philly or anything, but now, looking back, like it was kind of meant to be like the city of brotherly love, maybe we could do something over there. Like you never know, I just was against the grain to pick them. You know I have other friends born and raised here and they're like falcon fans or bear fans. They just packers like we didn't have a team during our era that we could, because everything else is dodgers, lakers kings, trojans, like every lafc. Everything else is la, yeah, lakers Kings, trojans, like LAFC, everything else is.

Speaker 2:

LA. Yeah, but when we got the Rams, back.

Speaker 1:

I was pumped, oh, all day long. It's not even a conversation.

Speaker 2:

Are the Clippers still the stepchild of LA.

Speaker 1:

I mean, my second team growing up was obviously the Bulls for Michael Jordan.

Speaker 2:

Like that was a lot. Yeah, I love them.

Speaker 1:

I don't know, I don't, you know. Yeah, I'm gonna say this because you're a chargers fan, but can you go back to san diego? We don't need the los angeles. I want to. I want to go back to san diego stay anaheim angels, we don't need you either did you go to?

Speaker 2:

did you go to we're talking sports now because I'm a huge sports fan as well Did you go to any of the playoff games, the Padres Dodgers this last season, the divisional series.

Speaker 1:

No, I did not and I was heartbroken Because, like this past couple years, we've had some really good teams. You know and I'm not going to say who's the bland, like it's not my world but it was very disappointing that we we lost that round. We lost that round. A couple years ago I was gonna do a, a mural with the padres I think manny ramirez was he who was over there and he has like a quote no manny no man who was on the padres.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm confusing who was the guy?

Speaker 1:

that guy, yeah, I think he has a quote and we were going to paint the quote in the padres parking lot oh, okay, what so?

Speaker 2:

what happened? And then?

Speaker 1:

kovat happened, kovat happened, things happened, yeah, but but uh, sports is just a huge sports and art ultimate two connectors. So yeah anytime. I could do anything with any sports team. I will not not do something, unless maybe it's the Cowboys For all of them.

Speaker 2:

No, but sports connects the message.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, 100%, all the Cowboys fans I know decided to go against the Eagles. I'm like if the Cowboys were in the Super Bowl, I would still root for them. They're in our division, we want our division to win and they're in the NFC. So I back it all up that way and I don't not like the Chiefs. Andy Reid I mean. He won us the Super Bowl and that was some great years with Andy Reid. I mean, that guy is a chief.

Speaker 2:

That's a whole other thing. You know what? I couldn't root for the Chiefs because they're in our division and they just spank us all the time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I agree.

Speaker 2:

I was pulling for the Eagles this season. I got two good buddies that are from Philly Adam Blackstone, this other dude, spanky, who's a drummer. Adam Blackstone, as a matter of fact, was the MD for the halftime show for this year and last Super Bowl, and so he put together the whole set for Rihanna and all of that stuff this year and then the Dr Dre halftime show that was here in Inglewood. But I knew he was happy because his team, his hometown team, was in the Super Bowl and he's doing the halftime show. So I was pulling for him. Man, it was a great game, don't get me wrong. It was a great game, don't get me wrong. It was a great till the end. I knew it was going to be close. I knew it was going to be close. That's what I said from the very beginning, but anyway, so I mean the spread was one and a half.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, let's yeah, it's all. Good, listen, this is the. This is the. This is what it is. I appreciate, but you want to talk about a champion.

Speaker 1:

Jalen Hurts is a champion. He played oh my God, how he played. Yeah, 24 years old. So, like the Eagles will be back, they will be back, without a doubt, I agree, and that team is going to stay together for a little bit, right. So it's young and there's opportunity there, but the way he shows up at 24, I mean that's a leader and that's going to be good.

Speaker 2:

You have to keep the nucleus together, right? You have to keep the core together in any movement. For sure I want to talk to you if we segue a little bit into family and keeping together. One of the things I love about you, sir, is that you are family man. The TED Talk you did. The Manhattan Beach TED Talk you did. I'm watching it. I've watched it a number of times and every single time I've seen it. What got my heart was hearing you get choked up as you mentioned your family, being a dad, being a husband. Please talk to me. I have a four-year-old and I have a four-month-old, two daughters, and I'm absolutely whooped. So when I heard that in you, I knew it. I knew that feeling. I want to hear from you what it was that got you so choked up in that moment. What do you think about when you know, when you're talking about your family and being a dad?

Speaker 1:

I think it's just the, the gratitude I have for just even being in that position right, having my wife, having my kid. Like we take so much for granted day to day. I take things for granted all the time, like you know, and we bicker about random stuff, like all these little things, but when you take inventory and when we go travel and when we do things, then to go on a stage, like Ted, and be able to say that like it's the gratitude that's overwhelming. Obviously that comes from love and all that. But you know, and I never knew I would be there, like you, look back 10 years. Did I ever think, oh, I'm going to be married with kids one day? I didn't even think that. You know, it wasn't like some people, all they think about is well, I need to be married, I need to be married, I have to have kids, I have to have kids and I never could relate to that. I'm like cool, like wasn't opposed to it, obviously, but it wasn't the thing that.

Speaker 1:

I was like this is my mission. I think it's a beautiful part of life, but there's more to that. Now I want to build this life with them. Like, where are we going to travel? What are we going to go see? How are we going to leave this world behind? What is the impact there? Now, I just have my, my, my road dogs with me, right, my warriors.

Speaker 1:

So I think that's your team and we choose the family we create, right? We're born into family and there's this expectation around automatically whatever to family, you have to respect it, you have to love it, you have to this even if it's not good for you, and I'm like there's a lot of things that just don't make sense around that Cause, if we look at humanity, back in the day, it was all tribal and and it's your, your human family was a lot of people like you had to survive that way, but now it's like you. You live in your little house who you don't even know, who your neighbors are sometimes like I've been living next to this dude for 25 years what's his name?

Speaker 1:

yeah, you just say, hey, sometimes when you're crossed paths with the garbage can or this person over here, someone moves in like no one goes and welcomes them anymore because we're so like this. But the family you choose and start building and the friends you make, you know people think blood is thicker than water. I'm like there's more to that quote. First of all, that's just part of it and I don't know the rest right now, so we can look. You can look it up and link it later. Let's do that. It's like we choose the friends we're bringing into our circle, the godparents of my my, my kid and all that. Now you're building the family that you choose for whatever values, and it's okay to evolve and move and shift and this and that so. So it's tough. Like you're born into neighborhood. Do you have to be stuck in that neighborhood forever?

Speaker 2:

No, you know, even hearing you say that, though Ruben brings me a little bit of we don't have to be stuck in the same neighborhood forever. Do you know how many families I've worked with for the last 22 years now that are stuck? And maybe it's not the physical address or the blocks, it's a mentality, right, but for the sake of this example, they just they believe that they are confined to this area, a radius, and you can see that there's just no hope for anything more exciting in their life and things like that. And so hearing you say that it just reminded me maybe of even the work that's still left to be done. You know that there's more. There's like like you, you don't have to like. You have purpose and value outside of where you believe you currently are. You know what I mean, and so I think that that kind of fuels me as well is that I want people to know, as I believe you do through your work, that the world is your oyster. Essentially, we all have a purpose. It doesn't have to just be where we are currently physically located. There can be cities around the world that are waiting to hear your message.

Speaker 2:

You may have not known that 15 years ago, maybe even further back right, 15 years ago, maybe even further back right. Yet here you are, and now you're thinking where else can I? You know, how can I get here? Or you're getting calls from other countries that want you to do some work for them. Just thinking about that is amazing. Being able to operate in that space is amazing. So that's just more of a reflection. I wanted to stay with family really. So that's just more of a reflection. I wanted to stay with family really, really quick. We're wrapping up, you know, and I have a two-part question I wanted to ask you since you've been married, what have you learned about love as a husband, through marriage, what have you learned about love? And then the second part is what have you learned about love since becoming a father?

Speaker 1:

For what have I learned as a husband? You know I'm constantly learning yes, and there's a couple things. I'm going to answer it a couple different ways. There's a couple of things. I'm going to answer it a couple of different ways. Through conversations you start realizing, like your wife, my wife said yes to me, they're not against me, so why do we get defensive or triggered for whatever reason? So it's like trying to avoid that conversation because, like you know, we still get defensive, feeling attacked or whatever I'm. Like she's not attacking me, maybe she is, but Sure, she's not attacking me. Maybe she is, but she doesn't mean to be attacking me. And how do we remove that conversation from it? That's an ongoing practice. But the main lesson, if I'm going to say the number one thing, is don't keep score. Especially that's going to lead into the second question, now that I have my son like there's times where I do way more than my wife does. But also, let's just take year one I don't know how many years it'll take me to even recover from the amount of work they did in year one. But that's also the fact. Like we don't keep score, like I'm not going to keep score for that, and just figuring out balance, because there's going to be a moment. If I take off for a week for a project, it's 100% her and Remy, so it balances out. So I think not keeping score in parenting, now that I'm a father, is a huge, huge thing that we need to understand. And I tell myself every day when I have a thought pop into my head and I'm like no, don't keep score, don't keep score, don't keep score, even if maybe she's keeping a point over here, like it's, it's not about that, it's not tip for test. Like we're both in this, for us to both win and for a kid to win Like does it matter? We have one goal, let's all win. Yeah, so I think it balances out. So don't keep score. Now.

Speaker 1:

Having a son being a father don't have any girls, maybe the next one's a girl. A son being a father don't have any girls. Maybe the next one's a girl. We're hoping for a boy, but it's a girl. We'll see. Let's see what what that does, what that does for me. But yeah, I operate in love and I've always been very empathetic, compassionate and sensitive. I was always you know, for the lack of a better term like ruben. Why are you getting butt hurt because I'm sensitive, I'm emotional, like I take shit to heart, but like having a kid. Now there is this other level of like and I'm also a dog guy. I've had dogs and I've raised them from puppies and I've lost dogs to age and death. And that's the closest comparison I can have because I believe humans.

Speaker 1:

There's something different, yeah, there is something different, because I look at him like that's my little twin and he's doing what I do. But that level of unconditional love you can learn in having an animal and I think animals are very important Like we have a dog. My kid's going to grow up with animals. I think that's a huge thing for people.

Speaker 2:

My dog is napping right next to me, right here, the whole time. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But there's this other level of like, next level, like crazy, like I didn't even know that was possible. And then the next question is that people ask all the time they're like how can you do that again if you have another kid and love one more than the other? Equally, dude, the heart is ever expansive. So this is what that really is your heart is ever expansive and continues to grow, evolve and share love. There is no limit to your heart. You could love everything. I could love my sneaker collection, I could love my dog and I could love my son and I could love my wife and I could love my Like. We can love all these things With that same passion.

Speaker 2:

There is something that happens when that child comes out of the womb and you're looking like I had no idea that I could love, like I didn't experience this depth of love. There's something there that just switches and you know that you're changed for life. Like you said, this is my twin. Like they're watching every move of mom and dad. They're copying whatever we do. Like, dang, we gotta watch what we say. Did you hear what they just said? You know what I mean. Like we have these kind of conversations, but wait a minute. They're listening to everything. They're copying your laugh, your gestures, your mannerisms. You are their world right and that feeling right.

Speaker 2:

There is something so amazing that it does. It takes us back a little bit too, reminds us that awe. Maybe we have moments where we're reminded of that awestruck sensation that we experienced at a very young age. But to see that and then to know that they're just so fragile and so dependent on you and you got nothing but love that you want to pour into this young person, gratitude comes to mind. It's literally a miracle to feel that. So I'm so happy that you said that there's this other level of love that I think even I'm still learning, even after the second child is here. You don't run out of love, it's more of God. I get to do this again. That's really what it feels like. So when you get there, when the two of you decided to cross that bridge and bring another beautiful human into this world, I mean it overflows. And maybe this is because your heart is already in a place of overflow, so you're just constantly ready to pour in. We're tired. Now I'm like you. I'm human as well and like last night, my four-month she had a tantrum like I couldn't believe. I'm just trying to help my wife out, as she's putting the other one to sleep, and I'm just trying to help. I hold this little four-month and she's throwing herself back like she doesn't even, like I'm trying to murder her. You know what I'm saying, but still you're like okay, you know I got you, you're safe in my arms, and that feeling is amazing. We don't get these moments back, that's.

Speaker 2:

The other thing is that these first four years, you know how fast a little human grows and they never do the same thing that they did, maybe even a month or two ago. You're never going to get those experiences back. Year one to year four, they're doing completely different stuff, and so it's like you realize that, as I'm raising this human, it sometimes feels like I'm running out of time to experience these other little amazing moments that they're discovering for the first time. So it's just, man, there's just so many layers to it. So I'm glad that you said that, because, as a father ah, man, you know what I mean, and so I'm emotional all the time.

Speaker 2:

Um, and I just want to make sure that this child you I'm, as I'm sure you and your wife do you want to make sure that this child, you, as I'm sure you and your wife do you want to make sure that remy knows he's loved and this family, this village, has all the love to give into other people's lives, you know. So what an amazing family for your son to be born into, to be able to see this role model for them. They're like, hey, in family we're living through love and hard times, good times. We're still pushing through, and this is our message Unconditionally we're pushing through. So, finally, one last thing I like to do with my guests. I'll read them a quote, and then I just like to hear how that resonates with the guest. Okay, so the quote I have for you today is the idea of love seemed appropriate everywhere. I couldn't find a place where love didn't fit. How does that resonate with you?

Speaker 1:

I mean, it's a no brainer, of course. Course you can't find a place where it doesn't fit because it's essential everywhere and you know we throw out love as the answer, as a thing, whether it was the revolution in the 60s and you know the hippie movement of love and every movement of love. But it's true, you can't find a place where it doesn't fit even, you know, go to a prison.

Speaker 1:

I've done stuff in prisons and like these murders, I've talked to murders and they found like once they forgave themselves and found love with themselves like they can come back from that. It doesn't mean they're this horrible person for the rest of their lives. They did a horrible thing and they get that. But when love comes back into that, yeah there is room for love, they can move on. Unfortunately, they're a little scarred with how society is built, sure, but there is, I mean, it's super fitting. At the end of the day, it fits everywhere for the record, that's your quote from a speech that you gave a while back yeah, I wasn't sure if you knew that or not.

Speaker 2:

I just assumed you were going to recognize it, but that's something that you said in my head I did, but I didn't.

Speaker 1:

I didn't want to go like is that mine? You don't want to see me?

Speaker 2:

yes, yes, and I'll read it again, because to me it's just. I read it and I felt like a changed man because I could, even in sessions, in therapy sessions, that's a nugget that I can use to share with somebody else, to encourage them to not give up on, you know, to not lose hope. In that the idea of love seemed appropriate everywhere.

Speaker 1:

I couldn't find a place where love did not fit, brother love so funny, because a lot of us throw out quotes and things. I'm like did I hear that somewhere? Is that one of mine? So sometimes things get misappropriated. And when you said that I'm like, all right, I'm gonna keep rolling with the exercise, but because I'm not making it about me, I'm just giving you the answer.

Speaker 2:

That is your quote, that's from your heart, those are your words and you know. I think that I wanted to be able to sit with you and reflect on that alone because I thought it was profound and I believe that that can change lives. Just the image of love fitting everywhere. You fit your murals in the middle of concrete jungles, right On cars, on tequila bottles or whatever it is. They fit wherever that your message fits, but love in its essence can fit anywhere, and it would be hard to find a place where love wouldn't fit.

Speaker 2:

I have worked with some of the most broken people, sat with them through some of the most traumatic scenarios in their life. I have literally helped or pulled somebody off from a ledge who was trying to jump off a three-story building, saying no, not today, you're not dying. And you sit with that, right. And why do we do that? Yeah, fine, we can say it's our job. No, because I got too much love for this person. I don't need to know them.

Speaker 2:

Past 30 minutes ago. I love you, there's nothing you can do about it. I got some love that there's nothing you can do about. If you don't love me, that's okay. I got enough love for the both of us. I'll love on me a little extra. You know what I'm saying, so I love you, man. I I really, really appreciate this. This is going to be, um, a conversation that I'll be reflecting back on for many years to come just being able to connect with another man who's not afraid to connect at the heart level but is on a good mission, man, and I really do believe that the work you're doing is necessary, and it seems like you're convinced of that as well, so I appreciate that, ruben. Thank you so much, man. Thank you for sitting with me on the Push Project podcast.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for having me Keep pushing Pete.

Speaker 2:

Let's do it.